Holiday Pay Dispute Clarification

Summary

If your contract specifies double time pay for bank holidays, you should receive twice your daily rate plus a day in lieu. Receiving only an additional single days pay may not meet this requirement. You can argue for lifting the two-year limitation on claims if you recently discovered the issue due to withheld contracts, language barriers, or employer misconduct. Consider presenting evidence of withheld documents, language difficulties, and any record modifications by the employer to support your case. Legal precedents like British Airways plc v Williams and Bear Scotland Ltd v Fulton emphasize the importance of adhering to contractual terms for pay calculations. If necessary, seek legal advice to ensure your rights are protected and to pursue any owed compensation.

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so what you are saying is that employer is using Holiday Entitlement to Offset Overtime Pay?

Hi Adela! Your employer seems to be compensating you correctly for working on bank holidays by providing double pay and a day in lieu, which complies with your contract. It's not about offsetting holiday entitlement with overtime pay.
A quick question: Are you concerned that this arrangement affects your overall holiday entitlement?

I am confused. Your first answer was that I am not exactly double paid. Now, you say that I am compensated correctly

Hi Adela! I understand your confusion. Let me clarify:
- Double pay means you get twice your daily rate.
- You receive your regular pay (£*) plus an additional day's pay (£*), which totals £*. This is effectively double pay.
- Additionally, you get a day in lieu.
You're compensated correctly per your contract. Do you have any other concerns or questions about this arrangement?

Yes. The salary does not include working bank holidays. It includes the normal working hours+ compensatory rest. The salary includes bank holiday to have them off or the lieu days if you work the bank holidays. Can you please rethink your position?

Hi Adela! To clarify, based on your description:
- Your contract specifies double time pay for bank holidays, plus a day in lieu.
- Regular salary covers normal working hours and compensatory rest.
- If you work on a bank holiday, you get double pay and a day in lieu.
If your salary covers normal working hours excluding bank holidays, and you get additional pay and rest for working bank holidays, this aligns with your contract.
Do you have any specific parts of your contract you are unsure about?

I dont think you get this. Please respond to the following: take the mentioned situation but change the double pay to regular pay. So break it in *, you have all the details. if you work one bank holiday,what would you have in *. if your contract states you are going to be paid single pay and get a day in lieu *. you are going to be paid at double time and given a day in lieu.

Hi Adela! Let's break it down based on your new scenarios:
*. Single Pay and Day in Lieu:
- You work a bank holiday.
- You receive your regular daily rate (£*).
- You get a day off in lieu.
*. Double Time Pay and Day in Lieu:
- You work a bank holiday.
- You receive double your daily rate (£*).
- You get a day off in lieu.
Does this help clarify your situation?

in both cases, the payment is on top of the salary?

Hi Adela!
Yes, in both scenarios, the payment for working on a bank holiday is additional to your regular salary.
*. Single Pay and Day in Lieu: Regular salary + £* + Day off in lieu.
*. Double Time Pay and Day in Lieu: Regular salary + £* + Day off in lieu.
Do you have any other questions or concerns about your holiday pay?

are u sure of your last answer?

Hi Adela! Yes, I'm sure of my last answer. To summarize:
- Single Pay and Day in Lieu: You get your regular salary, an additional £*, and a day off in lieu.
- Double Time Pay and Day in Lieu: You get your regular salary, an additional £*, and a day off in lieu.
Is there anything specific you're unsure about?

yes, very unsure because you do not keep the same narative. You change it.

Hi Adela! Let's simplify this:
- Single Pay and Day in Lieu:
- Regular salary + £* (for the bank holiday worked) + Day off in lieu.
- Double Time Pay and Day in Lieu:
- Regular salary + £* (for the bank holiday worked) + Day off in lieu.
Both payments are additional to your regular salary. Is there a specific concern about your overall holiday entitlement or pay that you need more clarity on?

so if you are required to be double paid and you get regular salary +* additional pay, is legally flawed

Hi Adela!
If your contract specifies double time pay for working on a bank holiday, you should receive double your daily rate (£*) in addition to your regular salary. Receiving only £* extra may not meet the contractual agreement. It might be worth discussing this with your HR department or seeking legal advice for clarity.
Do you have any other specific concerns or questions?

can you give me some case law examples on this?

Hi Adela! Here are a few case law examples related to holiday pay and working on bank holidays in the UK:
- British Airways plc v Williams [*] UKSC *: This case addressed the calculation of holiday pay and whether it should include allowances and supplementary payments.
- Lock v British Gas Trading Ltd [*] CJEU: This case determined that commission payments must be included in holiday pay calculations.
- Bear Scotland Ltd v Fulton [*] UKEAT 0047_13_411: This case confirmed that regular overtime should be included in holiday pay.
Would you like more details on any of these cases?

so working a bank holiday, how it is considered, regular overtime or special overtime?

Hi Adela! Working on a bank holiday is typically considered special overtime, especially since your contract specifies double time pay and a day in lieu. This distinguishes it from regular overtime.
Do you need more detailed information on how your rights are protected in such situations?

what is considered regular overtime? Something like " * hour from time to time"

Hi Adela! Regular overtime usually refers to any extra hours worked beyond your normal working schedule. It's typically more consistent, like working an extra hour or two regularly each week. It's different from special overtime, like working on bank holidays, which is often compensated at a higher rate. Do you have any more questions on this?

ok. Please draft a skeleton argument for unlawful deduction of wages on grounds that getting an additional *(single daily rate) does not mean you are paid double pay or at double time.

Sure Adela! Here's a draft skeleton argument:
---

Skeleton Argument
Claimant: Adela
Respondent: [Employer Name]
Court: [Court Name]
Case Number: [Case Number]

Introduction:
*. This is a claim for unlawful deduction of wages under section * of the Employment Rights Act *.
*. The Claimant contends that the Respondent has failed to pay double time for working on bank holidays, as stipulated in the employment contract.

Background:
*. The Claimant is a salaried employee with a holiday entitlement of *.* weeks, including * weeks of basic holiday and *.* weeks of lieu days for bank holidays.
*. The Claimant's contract specifies that for each bank holiday worked, the Claimant will be paid at double time and given a day in lieu.
*. The Claimant's daily rate is £*.

Points of Law:
*. Section * of the Employment Rights Act * prohibits unlawful deductions from wages.
*. The term "double time" as per the employment contract means twice the daily rate of pay.
*. The Claimant’s contract explicitly states double time pay for bankholidays worked.

Argument:
*. Contractual Obligation:
- The employment contract states that working on a bank holiday entitles the Claimant to double time pay (£*) and a day in lieu.
- Double time pay means the Claimant should receive twice their daily rate of £*, totaling £*.
*. Unlawful Deduction:
- The Respondent only paid an additional £* for working on a bank holiday, which does not fulfill the contract's double time pay requirement.
- This constitutes an unlawful deduction as the Claimant did not receive the full double time pay.
*. Legal Precedents:
- British Airways plc v Williams [*] UKSC *: Reinforces the importance of calculating pay based on contractual terms.
- Bear Scotland Ltd v Fulton [*] UKEAT 0047_13_411: Confirms that additional payments must be included in the calculation of pay.

Hi Adela! Let's clarify the draft to ensure it aligns with your situation:
---
Skeleton Argument
Claimant: Adela
Respondent: [Employer Name]
Court: [Court Name]
Case Number: [Case Number]

Introduction:
*. This claim is for unlawful deduction of wages under section * of the Employment Rights Act *.
*. The Claimant contends that the Respondent has failed to pay double time for working on bank holidays, as stipulated in the employment contract.

Argument:
*. Contractual Obligation:
- The employment contract states that working on a bank holiday entitles the Claimant to double time pay (£*) and a day in lieu.
- Double time pay means the Claimant should receive twice their daily rate of £*, totaling £*.
*. Unlawful Deduction:
- The Respondent only paid an additional £* for working on a bank holiday, which does not fulfill the contract's double time pay requirement.
- This constitutes an unlawful deduction as the Claimant did not receive the full double time pay.
*. Legal Precedents:
- British Airways plc v Williams [*] UKSC *: Reinforces the importance of calculating pay based on contractual terms.
- Bear Scotland Ltd v Fulton [*] UKEAT 0047_13_411: Confirms that additional payments must be included in the calculation of pay.

Conclusion:
*. The Claimant seeks the court's declaration that the Respondent has made unlawful deductions from wages.
*. The Claimant requests the court to order the Respondent to pay the outstanding amounts owed for double time

under which law you can claim back more than 2 years for unlawful dedections of wages?

Hi Adela! In England, under the Employment Rights Act *, there is a limitation period of two years for claiming back unlawful deductions from wages. However, if you need to claim back more than two years, you may want to explore other legal avenues, such as a breach of contract claim, which has a limitation period of six years.
Would you like more information on how to proceed with a breach of contract claim?

No, an employee cant claim breach of contract in an employment tribunal

Hi Adela! Actually, an employee can claim breach of contract in an employment tribunal under certain conditions. If your employment has ended, you can bring a breach of contract claim for up to £*,*. If your employment is ongoing, you may need to use the county court for larger claims.
Is there anything else you would like to know about your situation?

what do you need to prove in order to pursue the tribunal to lift up the limitation?

Hi Adela!
To pursue the tribunal to lift the limitation period, you generally need to show:
- The reasons for the delay in bringing the claim.
- That it was not reasonably practicable to bring the claim within the original limitation period.
- That you acted promptly once you became aware that you had a claim.
Would you like to know more about how to demonstrate these points?

based on what law, you can lift the lmitation period of 2 years?

Hi Adela! In England, the limitation period of two years for claiming unlawful deductions from wages under the Employment Rights Act * can be extended if you can prove that it was "not reasonably practicable" to bring your claim within the two-year period. This is based on Section * of the Employment Rights Act *.
Would you like more details on how to demonstrate this in your case?

the limit can be lifted in ET or higher tier tribunals like EAT or Supreme Court?

Hi Adela! The limitation period can be lifted in the Employment Tribunal (ET) if you can prove it was not reasonably practicable to bring the claim within the original time frame. Higher tribunals like the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT) or Supreme Court would review decisions made by the ET.
Is there something specific about your situation that makes you think the limitation should be lifted?

yes, employr witholded the contract for many years. When finally located, they made the change for current year, not for previous years. Employer threatened and had bad atitude. So yes, it was not reasonable practicable to make a claim because I just find out. And when signed the contract, many years ago, I did not understand the terms because my engish was limited and did not get a copy

Hi Adela! Based on what you've described, it seems you have a strong argument for lifting the limitation period due to the employer's actions and your limited understanding of the contract at the time. Here's a brief overview:
- Employer Withholding Contract: This prevented you from understanding your rights and making a timely claim.
- Recent Discovery: You only recently found the contract and discovered the issue.
- Language Barrier: Limited English proficiency at the time of signing the contract impacted your understanding.
- Employer's Attitude: Threats and bad attitude from the employer could have discouraged you from taking earlier action.
Would you like any more specific guidance on how to present these points to the tribunal?

yes please

Sure, Adela! Here's how you can present your points to the tribunal to lift the limitation period:
---
Skeleton Argument for Lifting Limitation Period
Claimant: Adela
Respondent: [Employer Name]
Court: [Employment Tribunal]
Case Number: [Case Number]
Introduction:
*. This application is to lift the limitation period for an unlawful deduction of wages claim under Section * of the Employment Rights Act *.
Background:
*. The Claimant is a salaried employee with a holiday entitlement of *.* weeks.
*. The Claimant's contract specifies double time pay for bank holidays worked, plus a day in lieu.
*. The Claimant's daily rate is £*.
*. The Claimant discovered the contract issue only recently due to withheld documents and language barriers at the time of signing.
Points of Law:
*. Section * of the Employment Rights Act * allows the tribunal to consider claims beyond the limitation period if it was "not reasonably practicable" to bring the claim within the original time frame.
Argument:
*. Employer Withholding Contract:
- The Respondent withheld the contract for several years, preventing the Claimant from understanding their rights and making a timely claim.
*. Recent Discovery:
- The Claimant only recently located the contract and discovered the issue of underpayment for bank holidays worked, making it not reasonably practicable to bring the claim earlier.
*. Language Barrier:
- At the time of signing the contract, the Claimant had limited English proficiency, which impacted their understanding of the contract's terms and their entitlements. The Claimant did not receive a copy of the contract to review.
*. Employer's Attitude:
- The Respondent's threatening behavior and bad attitude discouraged the Claimant from taking earlier action.
Conclusion:
*. The Claimant respectfully requests the tribunal to lift the limitation period based on the grounds provided.
*. The Claimant seeks the court's declaration that the Respondent has made unlawful deductions from wages and requests the court to order the Respondent to pay the outstanding amounts owed for double time pay on bank holidays.
---
Would you like any further assistance or details on specific points?

oh, and employer modified records for previous years, as well. To be able to show they complied for the last 2 years with holiday

Hi Adela! You have a strong case given the employer's actions. Here’s an updated skeleton argument to include the record modification:
---
Skeleton Argument for Lifting Limitation Period
Claimant: Adela
Respondent: [Employer Name]
Court: [Employment Tribunal]
Case Number: [Case Number]
Introduction:
*. This application is to lift the limitation period for an unlawful deduction of wages claim under Section * of the Employment Rights Act *.
Background:
*. The Claimant is a salaried employee with a holiday entitlement of *.* weeks.
*. The Claimant's contract specifies double time pay for bank holidays worked, plus a day in lieu.
*. The Claimant's daily rate is £*.
*. The Claimant discovered the contract issue only recently due to withheld documents and language barriers at the time of signing.
Points of Law:
*. Section * of the Employment Rights Act * allows the tribunal to consider claims beyond the limitation period if it was "not reasonably practicable" to bring the claim within the original time frame.
Argument:
*. Employer Withholding Contract:
-The Respondent withheld the contract for several years, preventing the Claimant from understanding their rights and making a timely claim.
*. Recent Discovery:
- The Claimant only recently located the contract and discovered the issue of underpayment for bank holidays worked, making it not reasonably practicable to bring the claim earlier.
*. Language Barrier:
- At the time of signing the contract, the Claimant had limited English proficiency, which impacted their understanding of the contract's terms and their entitlements. The Claimant did not receive a copy of the contract to review.
*. Employer's Attitude:
- The Respondent's threatening behavior and bad attitude discouraged the Claimant from taking earlier action.
*. Modification of Records:
- The Respondent modified records for previous years to show compliance, further obscuring the Claimant’s ability to identify the issue.
Conclusion:
*. The Claimant respectfully requests the tribunal to lift the limitation period based on the grounds provided.
*. The Claimant seeks the court's declaration that the Respondent has made unlawful deductions from wages and requests the court to order the Respondent to pay the outstanding amounts owed for double time pay on bank holidays.
---
Would you like any further assistance

Holiday Pay Dispute Clarification

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